38 Comments

  1. We should be filtering our drinking water with zeolite. There is zeolite on every continent. There is no reason that any water supply on this planet should be polluted.

  2. Anonymous says:

    I'm not pro sodium fluoride, I'm saying the government is also trying to prevent communities from fluorosis. They have done a lot of good as well.

  3. I live in an area,which isn't even rural, with high levels of (calcium) fluoride and the government hasn't done anything here to remove the fluoride from the drinking water.

    I'm not saying you're wrong; I'm just saying there are definitely areas where they don't care.

    Instead, what they do is send out a letter to all parents who've recently had kids saying not to let them drink the water here until they're something, like, three years old.

    When I first moved here, after about two years, I started getting mild fluorosis. Bought a Berkey with the special filter that gets out fluoride, and everything's back to normal now. 🙂

    1. Anonymous says:

      You can't "get" fluorosis once your teeth are already formed and erupted into your mouth. It only happens when your teeth are developing, far before they even pop through your gums. And if your teeth develop with fluorosis, you can not get rid of it. Your teeth don't go back to normal it is permanent. Usually, water treatment is coded by municipal governments. You should contact yours.

  4. Anonymous says:

    My municipal government removes fluoride from our water.

  5. Yahoosers says:

    If you notice from my above post, Hexafluorosilicic acid is used to make aluminum, in addition to being added to drinking water. Do you see why Alzheimer's disease and dementia has been on the rise for a long time? A number of research findings have suggested a possible link between aluminium and Alzheimer's disease. These findings include: the presence of aluminium deposits in tangles and plaques in the brains of people with Alzheimer's disease; and increased rates of dementia in people with kidney failure whose bodies have raised levels of aluminium. However, a large study of the brains of people who had died from Alzheimer's disease found only normal levels of aluminium.

    Some studies have suggested that people living in areas with high concentrations of aluminium in the water supply may be more likely to develop Alzheimer's disease. However, this evidence is inconclusive. Exposure to aluminium from other sources, such as from drinking tea, using antiperspirants and taking antacids, has not been shown to be linked to the development of Alzheimer's disease. Source:

    http://alzheimers.org.uk/site/scripts/faqs.php?ca

  6. Most people here are malinformed. Please read the actual study mentioned in this article in the Journal of Nuclear Medicine.

    I read a summary of the article – at the link below. It doesn't mention a causal link between fluoride uptake and atherosclerosis

    http://www.greenmedinfo.com/article/there-associa

    Quoted in the article

    CONCLUSION: sodium [¹⁸F]fluoride PET/CT might be useful in the evaluation of the atherosclerotic process in major arteries, including coronary arteries. An increased fluoride uptake in coronary arteries may be associated with an increased cardiovascular risk

    The study suggests using sodium fluoride as a marker to detect atherosclerosis – it doesn't say that fluoride causes it.

  7. The article doesn't at all address the necessity of fluoride as a water additive. It's not considered in the slightest. What the paper is saying is that their is a correlation between calcification and fluoride uptake in arteries, and consequently fluoride-based PET may be useful as an early diagnostic test for atherosclerosis.

    Or, if you want to say correlation equals causation, calcification of the arteries causes them to take up more fluoride, NOT the other way around.

  8. Many years ago, in the 1930's or so, long-forgotten research had it that fluoride rotted the connection between the gum and the teeth, and calcified the pulp chamber. It might only be one part per million, but it is cumulative. If it makes microscopic holes in the enamel and embrittles the teeth, as some allege, what effect does it have on bones? Apparently the 'fluoride is good for teeth' mantra was manufactured by the American Government to get them off the hook when sued by farmers for the damage caused by fluoride fumes when making the bomb. I can still find occasionally, old agricultural books which hint at widespread F. damage caused by industry.

    And the fluoride ion is not always the same, but what company does it keep? Ever heard of synergistic effects? It creates a more powerful version, it takes it in, its more systemic. Most of Europe has banned it or never used it, the science is on our side but Britain wants to increase it, to 100% of the country, why?

  9. It is pretty clear that fluoride does cause heart disease & you can read so for yourself:

    http://journals.lww.com/nuclearmedicinecomm/Fullt… (you can view here the text below)

    Discussion:

    "In our study, fluoride uptake and CT calcification are significantly correlated in the same arterial territories, except in the abdominal aorta. "

    "Fluoride uptake either overlaps with calcification or locates adjacent to the detectable calcium deposits, suggesting that fluoride uptake and detectable calcification represent different stages of the atherosclerotic process."

    "We found that fluoride uptake in coronary arteries is significantly correlated with a patient’s history of cardiovascular events, and the uptake value in patients with cardiovascular events was significantly higher than that in patients without cardiovascular events. These results further support the fact that higher fluoride uptake in coronary arteries indicates increased cardiovascular risk."

    1. Anonymous says:

      Sorry but you obviously have no understanding of basic science. This study focuses SPECIFICALLY on the impact of a particular kind of imaging, namely sodium [¹⁸F]fluoride PET/CT, and the impact that this kind of imaging (where they inject radioactive fluoride into your bloodstream) has on the blood vessels. This study does not address fluoride in drinking water or its impacts, nor do the results of this study have any implications for fluoridization of drinking water. For one thing, injecting fluoride into your blood and injesting it are two different things. For another, the fluoride used in this imaging technique is an isotype (its radioactive) and does not survive for long, so it would not be found in your drinking water. So basically there is no scientific basis for this article, and it should be deleted.

  10. SkepticalVegan says:

    yes, I'm a in favor of levels of fluoridation to 0.7 ppm.

    As far as the other questions, they are actually irrelevant to the argument. Stop shill baiting or pony up all your personal info.

    1. This isnt shill baiting Im asking an honest question which your avoiding, And I asked it nicely and non-defensively but your response is consistent with your own defensive tactic that has been present on this thread from the beggining. Your responses to most people on here have been snide, condescending and inflammatory, It's easy to be that way behind a keyboard isnt it? I wonder if your that way to people in person you disagree with. Whether Gucciardi is correct or not is an honest and viable debate but attacking people in the manner you have because YOU declare their information is wrong or inferior to yours does warrant proof of your science backround. NOW…Since you insist on perceiving your self as an expert on science and arrogantly and pretentiously Insisting that everyone on here who disagrees with you or has other knowledge of this topic is wrong IT IS relevant, funny how you set your own set of rules as to how these debates and argument should be run. And NO I dont put my personal info on open forums, im not stupid. AGAIN this isnt YOUR forum to make the rules as to how someone has to " pony up" to ask an honest and pertinent question of someone who is declaring themselves to have a " passion for science". Your defensiveness only makes you look less qualified to act like an expert than you are.

      Come off your high horse "jaime" and tell us why your qualified to tell everyone how wrong they are and your the only one who could possibly be correct about everything on this thread.

    2. Anonymous says:

      I am a dental hygienist that refuses to labor under the stewardship of the ADA. Fluoride is not needed by the human body for ANYTHING!

      So why don't you pony up and get someone who can read help you out. That's really all it takes to understand this issue. Get them to refresh you on the Nuremberg Code as well.

      A confederacy of dunces is in control forcing decent, caring, ignorant or just plain scared people to parrot their bs …IT IS NOT, "Safe and effective! Safe and effective!! Safe and effective!!"

      It

  11. I am not commenting on the study, which I did not read. I will,however, give you my personal observations as a dental hygienist, who has been practicing for 20 years. I don't know what studies say that Fluoride in the water does not help to prevent tooth decay, but I do not believe them. Everyday, I see the evidence in my patient's mouths. The amount of tooth decay in patients, who grew up without fluoride in their water, is devastating. These people have enormous amalgams that are replaced with crowns and eventually they loose their teeth to decay and gum disease. Patients who grew up with fluoride in their water hardly have any decay at all. When I see a patient under 50 who has large fillings I ask where they grew up and if they had well water. Inevitably the answer is that they did grow up on well water. You can show me studies that say fluoride doesn't make a difference to teeth, but I will not believe you. I have had my hands in thousands of mouths in the last 20 years and there is a clear difference between people who had fluoride as children and people who didn't. The woman who hasn't had a cavity in 35 years is very fortunate to not have a high concentration of strep mutans in her saliva. She also needs to understand that fluoride in the water supply has almost no affect on adult teeth. This statement also goes out to the woman who claims that she got fluorosis. Impossible. The only affect the fluoride in the water would have would be minimal because it is systemic and does appear in trace amounts in sulcular fluid. Systemic fluoride only effects developing teeth. Developed teeth can however uptake topical fluoride.

    I do not presume to comment on how systemic fluoride effects the body. I just know what I see everyday in the mouths of my patients. I guess most of the people who have made comments here, are willing to give up tea, cheese and chocolate. All of these things have fluoride in them.

    1. Doc, even if fluoride was good for "developing" teeth, do you really think it outweighs the long term effects of ingesting heavy metals?

      Decreased IQ, heart disease…

      Read the studies and scientific reports.

    2. I grew up in a town with naturally fluoridated water. I spent my first 15 years of life being in excruciating pain. When I was 15, I was finally diagnosed with osteochondritis dissecans, which is an extremely painful bone disease. At the time, I was told it was rare for girls to get it because it was usually male basketball players. At 30, when I had my 3rd surgery from the disease, I was told that no, it's a girl's disease. Girls who grew too tall too fast. That certainly fit me. At that point (early 80s), girls were put in wheelchairs and given heavy doses of pain killers.

      Now, I find out that the disease is from ingesting too much fluoride. I had one knee replaced last year and will have the other one replaced next year. It will be my 6th operation.

      Large dogs and horses also get this horrible disease because they're drinking the same water that you and I drink.

      That's how systemic fluoride affects the body.

    3. so sad reading this comment. I was raised on water containing Fluoride. I have a filling in everyone of my teeth, now have gum disease and thyroid disease all pointing the finger at the use of fluoride. My children were raised without fluoride and now have decay free teeth as mid adults. hmmmmm so much for your supporting fluoride. I have many friends and associates also having dental problems that were raised with fluoride in their water. There are so many proven results on the dangers of fluoride and the thousands of professionals against this shamefull use of fluoride in our drinking water. Well fluoride is not only in our water, the list of products we eat daily are contaminated with fluoride. Do your homework.

  12. The study referenced here does not attempt to prove that flouride is linked to any disease. The study concludes:

    "sodium fluoride PET/CT might be useful in the evaluation of the atherosclerotic process in major arteries, including coronary arteries."

    They are using flouride to _diagnose_ atherosclerosis.

    Check it out:

    http://www.greenmedinfo.com/article/there-associa

  13. derek jones says:

    agreed. this study is being misinterpreted. even I misinterpreted the study until my wife, who is a cardiac nurse explained it to my properly.

    but yeah, fluoride is no good for anyone…and doesn't help guard against tooth decay at all. myths….

  14. I am wondering if the author even read the referenced article. Like others have said, it was done to explore the usefulness of positron-emitting fluoride in the diagnosis of cardiovascular disease. This is why non-scientists should not be interpreting scientific journal articles.

  15. if you actually READ that study, you'll find it is NOT about the use of dental fluoride or fluoridated water at all. In reality it was a retrospective study examining imaging data from 61 patients who received whole-body sodium [¹⁸F] fluoride PET/CT studies. PET (Positron Emission Tomography) scans use positron-emitting tracers, in this case the radioactive isotope fluorine-18, in the blood to produce a 3D image of the body and are an important diagnostic tool in oncology and elsewhere. How ignorant can people be??? http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21946616

    1. Anonymous says:

      Go to EPA website on flouride. States citizen participation in pesticide levels. It also states not for human consumption. Read it and u will see legit proof it is listed as pesticide!!!

  16. All I know is I quit getting cavities 7 years ago when I quit using fluoride.

  17. I don't think you have the faintest clue what the nuclear medicine study you cite is actually about.

    It uses a fluoride-containing marker to detect coronary atheroma. It is not an article about environmental health.

    If you do not understand this, you should not be publicising conclusions as you have done here.

    If you do understand this, you are being deliberately deceptive.

    The ethical thing for you to do here is to publish an apology and a retraction.

  18. Our local bottled "spring" water was found to contain higher aluminium levels than even tap water! I'm in the process of buying a reverse osmosis water filter…. Expensive but so VERY worth it.

  19. And if fluoride has such an affinity to the calcium already deposited, that will increase the rate of artery occlusion as the fluoride/calcium compound decreases the lumen. Thus, consuming fluoride, even in drinking water, can bind with – and add to – the calcified atherosclerotic plaques within the blood vessels…. Incresing cardiovascular disease morbidity & mortality rate. Avoid fluoride.

    1. Lumen size. Increasing CVD morbidity & mortality.

  20. I will use reverse osmosis water filtration & take XYLITOL treatment for my dental caries protection over fluoride ANY DAY.

    Shall we drink to it? Bottoms up my dear! Drink deeply, my little fluoridated pumpkin heads…. 😉

  21. Natural fluoride in springs is completely different than the synthetic by product of aluminum fluoride.

  22. downeastdonna says:

    I just want to say first, that I am a registered Dental Hygienist and have seen the benefits of Fluoride and do believe it works to prevent tooth decay. That being said, I can not give my own child Fluoride, he is now 5 years old and still reacts to the full 1 ml dose of Rx Sodium Fluoride. 16 months ago I started him on Sodium Fluoride tablets, that is when he experienced his first Night Terror episode, I gave him Fluoride 3 times a week, and those nights he would experience frightening psychotic like episodes. I gave up the Fluoride for four weeks, and the first night of withdrawal his Night Terrors stopped. After the four weeks, my husband and I decide we would try again, this was a new bottle. The first try back on Fluoride he experience Night Terrors. We stopped Fluoride for a little over a year, and in that time not one night terror. My child's pediatrician suggested we try liquid fluoride this time. Three days ago I figured it was safe to try again, it had been over a year. I gave my son 0.5 ml of the liquid fluoride. That night he was restless, but no alarm went off in my head that it was the Fluoride, the next night I gave him the full dose, 1 ml. I did not get any sleep that night, my son woke up with one psychotic type episode after another, the same kind he experienced before when we tried him on fluoride. He starts out screaming and crying, kicking us and trying to run, as the episodes wind down over the next several hours he will wake up sobbing and rocking himself, other times he wakes up crying and screaming there are bugs on his pillow. This child is a very healthy, happy, bright normal child and lives in a stable home with loving parents. Without doubt, my husband and I have seen for ourselves that for some reason, Sodium Fluoride triggers his Night Terrors, when your child has only had Rx Fluoride 29 times, and has only had Night Terrors 29 times both over a period of two years and both only together. It's hard to argue. My child would like a doctor to give him fluoride so they can see for themselves, we would be willing! Now I wonder if Sodium Fluoride could not just alter ones brain into night terrors, but maybe it could be a trigger for some cases of autism or schizophrenia.. Very frighten thought. I hope this can help even one child if Fluoride could be their trigger for Night Terrors.

  23. bubbiesbub says:

    Xylitol has been disproven to be effective in reducing caries except when in gum form which stimulates saliva. So it is the saliva enhancement that reduces decay.

  24. Careful on recomending XYLITOL, or having it in any home with pets. It is a death sentence for animals and best left under resriction as you would prescription medications. KILLS dogs.

  25. O'Malley's water says:

    i am a female who grew up on fluoridated water too. i’ve had 2 surgeries so far on my ankle b/c of osteochondritis dissecans also!
    I’m now 55 and live in a highly fluoridated city. My joints and tendons became painful so i tried getting off tap water, tea, Cal wine. I distill my own water now and am pain free! I stay thin easily and am clearer thinking! lots of women around me are being diagnosed with thyroid conditions and lupus.

  26. O'Malley water says:

    i grew up drinking fluoridated water. i have a mouth full of large fillings, crowns etc. Brushed everyday with fluoride toothpaste. Have a good diet and am a thorough brusher. Some of my enamel is quite rough.

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